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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
241
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Posted - 2012.08.09 11:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
It is not easy in the least to stick it to someone that doesn't want to be probed (sexual innuendo, best innuendo!) .. maxed skills, implants, CovOps and rigging just to be eligible .. then comes the actual probing part.
One problem with off-grid bonuses is that they force a very specific play as that CovOps is the only real counter to it .. a counter that is not "normally" found outside blob/fleet-fests (ie. low-sec/roams). Keeping status quo (or the stingy compromise of 'not in POS') and simply add even more mandatory 'alt required' mechanics ... more accounts, more dinero for CCP = good for game .. right? 
Another problem with off-grid bonuses is the magnitude. With the correct hull, implant and modules you are looking at amplifying a given groups performance by 50%+ which is staggeringly OP .. particularly since you have just the one above mentioned counter. Consider that we pay millions, even billions, to get just a few percentage points advantage on our individual ships by using bling .. links provide more than 10x (probably closer to 20x) that across an entire fleet (Ex. one ship with just one link magically transforms all T2 disruptors in the entire fleet into RF disruptors .. that is before commandship/T3 hull specific bonuses are even applied mind you).
Yet another problem with off-grid bonuses is that they represent the most heinous of game design where one can influence events with no active participation, indeed without even being present.
CSM, being null-bears for the most part, are fully aware of the potential pitfalls of just moving them on-grid. Pretty sure there will be major changes/overhauls of both command's and T3's prior to or in conjunction with such a change .. they talk about ideas for changing both in the minutes as well by the way, let the lobbying begin!
My preferred solution is to make the bonuses range dependent to simulate the slight delay in C&C data. With a maximum range of say 400km, split into 5-6 range bands with bonuses decreasing the further away the links are from the action .. would be a massive server drain though as blob fights would force a bazillion calculations so 'meh' (I can live with on-grid and a maximum range (has to be included to account for Grid-fu scenarios)).
PS: Before the mining crowd finds this thread and starts moaning about not wanting to commit the Rorq to a belt .. get protection or use a regular command ship. The slightly lower bonuses still make your roids pop faster than not having bonuses at all.
PPS: When change is made, give Carriers (not the super variety) a small link bonus (already have fitting bonus) so that they can be used in blobby weather when/if commands fail to do the job. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
276
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Posted - 2012.09.04 06:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not.
Was suggested a while ago that hulls be used to differentiate in such a manner when they are getting overhauled anyway. T3, never being better than T2 (ref: CCP design goals), could be limited to squad boosting, T2 could be limited to wing/squad boosting with capitals being the only hulls with enough juice to transmit across an entire fleet.
Problem is that for min/max'ing a fleets potential it would have to use up to 5-10% boosters which is a tough sell to people who have grown accustomed to having the "One Ship to Boost them All" .. that is the biggest hurdle as I see it.
Alternative (within framework of On-Grid, 'cause it WILL happen) is to simply add a broadcast power attribute to the relevant hulls/subsystems, T3 are able to cover 100km, T2 can cover 250km and capitals can reach full grid or 500km whichever condition is met first.
BBQ FTW wrote:fon for CSM
even if he wants to exterminate my corpmate irl (ingame)
Finally snapped, eh? IRL now being referred to as in-game .. guessing you love the Hi-Definition graphics beyond your front door and would love CCP to upgrade IRL to the same level 
PS: Don't mind the people saying you are insane, they are just envious of your clearly superior perception! |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
296
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Posted - 2012.09.25 13:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:One issue is that fleet boosts are not part of the "diminishing returns" associated...
Heh, yeah. Really is an insane amount of oomph one can get from an off-the-shelves item .. yet they have the audacity to complain that a booster does not get his own augmentation even if his 200 sheep "friends" do.
Fleet boosting has spoiled Eve players senseless, for that alone it should be nerfed into the ground 
Fon Revedhort wrote:The same is true for Falcons or cloaked supplementary logistic, so I'd rather impose a limit to have a solid discussion ground. Given how EVE works, there's hardly a way to move that additional ship unscouted, whether OGB alt or not, so the opposing ones do take it into account for the most part.
Huh? Unless something changed drastically that gave ECM and RR the ability to function system wide then using those ships for comparison is out of bounds. Besides, MWD/Cloak trick (can't believe it hasn't been patched out to be honest) can and will get you anywhere you want to go barring a large'ish bubble camp. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
362
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 17:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Simple... real simple solution to Offgrid Boosting...
Except the issue is not so much that they cannot be scanned down but rather that you one ship that is able to boost up 250 other ships to perform 50%+ better than they would otherwise .. without even being present.
Consider the circumstances that led to the Failcon nerf all those years ago .. it was able to do its thing at ranges where only BS snipers could threaten it .. and that is a ship (class) that is only able to affect a handful of ships at best or a single when his mojo fails.
No compromises. On grid or remove. Adjust hulls, modules and skills to make it work.
As for homefield advantage in worms (null has bridges and bubble camps on static entrances):
Introduce a POS module that can only be deployed where no Sov exists, said module acts as an amplifier for links deployed in the system, or one could add a booster-for-boosters effect to worms but that would necessarily augment both defender and interloper so doubt worm people would go for that.
They are going to revise Sov at some point SoonGäó so they might as well include such things in the beer guzzling phase, you know the preliminary napkin phase at the pub. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
371
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 07:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Have to admit, the bit about links going on-grid did nothing for me as it was a pretty damn obvious decision .. there are broken things and then there are off-grid T3 booster, they are on a completely different scale of broken-ness.
The thing that made me change my underwear was that they are willing to do a major overhaul of all the CC, including making all of them combat capable, you'll literally have to be on the ball and visually inspect them to see the link effect and even then it can still be a 'dummy' linkship with just one to attract attention and te rest of the highs full of pain.
Another thing of interest will be how they go about changing the T3's and the subsystems .. they too will need to have the option of being "beasts" with a command sub or they risk being gimped out of the box. No one will use them as primary linkships if they are dead/vulnerable the second they appear.
...whatever. Links, schminks .. Damnation will be made viable as a "bend over, biatch!" Khanid missile spewing mofo, that alone will probably make me hang around. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
434
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 17:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gunship wrote:....Boosting modules should have a max range when fitted on a ship. Example 100Km default , the up to 150km with best skills
Would prefer it be the default grid size to give them at least some space-buffer while people re-learn how to pilot a ship that needs to be there but necessarily do much other than just that.
Biggest hurdle will be Grid-Fu shenanigans .. some insane defensive options exist regardless of solution to links (range, grid or combination).
jjohnpaul xvii wrote:Please CCPz dont forget to remove all implants and ammo and ships. I demand heads or tails in space. Simple as that.
Wonder of the FoTM lobbies will ever update their talking point slides .. I swear it has been the same nonsense every time a change has been proposed/discussed since I started |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
441
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 23:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zoe Panala wrote:tl dr
problem is not ogb, problem is that your Loki works from 64 AU, but my Scorpion does not. We need ECM to get balanced!
Don't forget logistics and all other action that influence action directly or indirectly (ie. everything in EVe )
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